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So I'm listening to The Lost Masters X today.  

Then, as now, I remain struck by Bruce's stark, solo home demo of "The Bells of San Salvador" -- which is given various other titles on the actual disc.

Thanks to a 2012 topic by Pete, we learned Springsteen took this late 1981 stunner and worked it into a full band arrangement in April 1982: 

https://www.spl-messages.net/t...s--electric-nebraska

The off-line, full band rehearsal recording remains private, and since then, nothing has surfaced.  

Any possibility of the full band demo showing up would be a godsend. 

I've been haunted by the solo recordings of "The Bells of San Salvador" since the tape first appeared in 1996.  

Am I the only one?

AUDIO INFO:

I've determined the old import disc actually featured FIVE demo pieces of "The Bells of San Salvador" ... here is where you may find them -->

The Lost Masters X: Jesse James & The Wages Of Sin (Labor of Love - Love 010)

03. Ruled By The Gun #2

11. Untitled Riff

13. Wages of Sin #3

22. They Killed Him In The Street #1

23. They Killed Him In The Street #2

Johnny

Last edited by jsavage
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John

Have you read "Bells of San Salvador" on Brucebase lately? I updated Pete's section to include Untitled Riff, which has Bruce saying the song title "Bells of San Salvador" at the end.

I have been listening to Ruled By the Gun over and over, and you may be right. I listened to all versions of Ruled By the Gun many times, and #2 doesn't go with them. It fits perfectly with They Killed Him and Untitled Riff. I will play them more, and wait for comments here. Speak up people! A million people per month look at those pages, I try to make right decisions before I change something.

On Wages of Sin #3 I cannot agree, he sings the song title too many times. They obviously came from the same period, and sound similar. 

 

Great topic, thank you so much.

people would jump onstage and grab me by the head and scream, ‘tilly! bootlegs!'"

Last edited by tillywilly

Thanks for chiming in!  

The main point of this topic is to determine if we are any closer to seeing a release of the full band rehearsal of "The Bells of San Salvador."  As far as I know, it remains unavailable.

The five segments I cite at the end of my post all relate to this song.  I did indeed see the Brucebase comment, but my analysis identifies more than just "11. Untitled Riff."

I'm not sure what you are hearing in "13. Wages of Sin #3" as Bruce does not sing any words that I can make out.  

Bruce Springsteen Wages of Sin #3 harmonies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70tOjX7SycM

In fact, this piece seems to represent his idea for the bridge or solo intended to be a part of "The Bells of San Salvador."  If I can hear the full band demo, that might help support my suggestion.

Johnny

For those who have not heard this spooky home demo, click the links below and give the five pieces a listen.

 

The Lost Masters X: Jesse James & The Wages Of Sin (Labor of Love - Love 010)

"The Bells of San Salvador" (home demo pieces)

03. Ruled By The Gun #2 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvJXJPjk9NM

11. Untitled Riff --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQKQEGrRI1o

13. Wages of Sin #3 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70tOjX7SycM

22. They Killed Him In The Street #1 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJwz2eJC6jc

23. They Killed Him In The Street #2 --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC0gaBt-2pM

Johnny

 

Proposed

Bells v1 Ruled By The Gun v2 128 - LM-10
Bells v2 Untitled Riff - Bells Of San Salvador 117 - LM-10
Bells v3 They Killed Him In The Street v2 032 - LM-10
Bells v4 Wages of Sin v4 216 - LM-10
Bells v5 They Killed Him In The Street v1 309 - LM-10

 

In ver 4 he starts mumbling words, then more in v5

people would jump onstage and grab me by the head and scream, ‘tilly! bootlegs!'"

Last edited by tillywilly

Brucebase

BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V1 1:28 LM-10
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V2 1:17 LM-10
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V3 0:32 LM-10
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V4 2:18 LM-10
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V5 3:09 LM-10
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V6 3:07 private

I will explain old titles below

people would jump onstage and grab me by the head and scream, ‘tilly! bootlegs!'"

Last edited by tillywilly

BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V1 1:28 Ruled By The Gun #2 track 3
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V2 1:17 Untitled Riff track 11
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V3 0:32 They Killed Him In The Street #2 track 23
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V4 2:18 Wages of Sin #3 track 13
BELLS OF SAN SALVADOR - V5 3:09 They Killed Him In The Street #1 track 22

people would jump onstage and grab me by the head and scream, ‘tilly! bootlegs!'"

Last edited by tillywilly

Like the update, the ordering seems okay. 

Taken together, we hear Bruce working on various sections of this stunning song: verse, chorus, and bridge/solo.  I hope someday to hear how he put it all together for that band rehearsal version.  For my money, the nine minutes we have are about the most interesting of all the music from this demo session.

If possible, my credit should read Johnny Savage, and I have been a contributor to the Brucebase site through the years, not just a reader of the site.

Also, I do not feel it is fair to say "The creators of Lost Masters clearly did not do their homework" in discussing this home demo.

The series was 25 discs total, and the recordings on Lost Masters X are of varying quality.  Trying to identify when Bruce was singing a particular song, or verbalizing a guitar solo or a bridge, was not easy.

Johnny

Ponyboy posted:

Updated, and softened ;-)

Are you one of the editors at Brucebase as well?

If so, my name is still incorrect,  it should read Johnny Savage.

Also, I'm not quite sure why the people behind the Labor of Love label need to be mentioned at all.   The revision now implies they were doing some kind of research in putting together their song titles ("The creators of Lost Masters appear to have their facts wrong"). 

I would suggest these fans did nothing more than listen to the recordings, make their best guess on each selected track, and take the art to the printers.

Going off-topic a bit here:

Today I took a gander at some of the other Brucebase session pages, and  I am kind of shocked to discover an enormous amount of personal opinion and editorializing in the introductions, and beneath many  listed tracks.  There is also way, way too much detail breakdown here and there.  It is distracting and confusing, to say the least.

Now it must be said that back in the day I'd see an occasional kudo on the Brucebase session pages for a really wonderful outtake, but never the kind of often harsh rhetoric that is there now.  I don't think it benefits the history of the site, or those fans who may be visiting for the first time to learn more about Bruce's stunning studio work through the years.

Why the change?

Johnny

Last edited by jsavage
jsavage posted:
Ponyboy posted:

Updated, and softened ;-)

Are you one of the editors at Brucebase as well?

If so, my name is still incorrect,  it should read Johnny Savage.

Also, I'm not quite sure why the people behind the Labor of Love label need to be mentioned at all.   The revision now implies they were doing some kind of research in putting together their song titles ("The creators of Lost Masters appear to have their facts wrong"). 

I would suggest these fans did nothing more than listen to the recordings, make their best guess on each selected track, and take the art to the printers.

Going off-topic a bit here:

Today I took a gander at some of the other Brucebase session pages, and  I am kind of shocked to discover an enormous amount of personal opinion and editorializing in the introductions, and beneath many  listed tracks.  There is also way, way too much detail breakdown here and there.  It is distracting and confusing, to say the least.

Now it must be said that back in the day I'd see an occasional kudo on the Brucebase session pages for a really wonderful outtake, but never the kind of often harsh rhetoric that is there now.  I don't think it benefits the history of the site, or those fans who may be visiting for the first time to learn more about Bruce's stunning studio work through the years.

Why the change?

I am the main founder of Brucebase at it's current location. Name changed. I will look into the personal opinions, and talk to TillyWilly about it. I shared your concern on this before, however for me it's way too difficult to monitor all these changes.

Johnny

Thanks for your opinions, we will go over all your points. According to analytics, Brucebase has doubled to over 1 million hits per month in the past year, and on the boards I visit, the comments are very positive about the content. However, your comments have some excellent points, and there is definitely room for improvement. I like it when people criticize, that's when valuable information I can use is sometimes expressed, not that I don't also enjoy the nice things people have said. 

Brucebase has always been flavored by personal commentary of the writer and editors. Before I joined the team, I was a reader and contributor for many years.

Some of it I liked, some I didn't. The content you objected to remarked on the imperfections of The Lost Masters, which came to us from two enterprising individuals, who overcame ethical and moral objections to purchasing stolen property in achieving this. So while I love bootlegs, I will always have some ambivelence toward their creators, and have never envinsioned them as "fans", which perhaps they once were before they became businessmen. I had a good laugh when creators of "Fire On the Fingertips" called "Bisop Danced", "Mama Does 'Rithmetic", don't get me wrong.

In revising and updating session pages, I revised many areas where I felt Pete had injected too many personal observations. I have obviously replaced those with some of my own. We usually edit that out too, when it is noticed, but if it is artfully expressed, it might stay. Brucebase is not on encyclopedia or government report, It is a compilation of fanbased  accounts, professional research, and detective work, combined with an incomparable work ethic over 25 years.

Too much information? I have heard that twice before. I particpate on many boards so I can observe what readers have to say, because Brucebase is for the community, not just the editors, though we are fans too. All I hear is get more information, we love it, over and over. However, I am sure there are others that share your preference, and we are trying to figure out ways to provide both. Remember, Brucebase is a home-grown website, with limited automation, and resources are devoted to creating content. We are non-profit and supported by fans. 

jsavage posted:

 

Also, I do not feel it is fair to say "The creators of Lost Masters clearly did not do their homework" in discussing this home demo.

 

 

I couldn't find this quote sorry

people would jump onstage and grab me by the head and scream, ‘tilly! bootlegs!'"

jsavage posted:

I did some research today and determined "The Bells of San Salvador" demos -- and perhaps everything from that tape which we find on The Lost Masters X --  were made in February-March 1982, based on front page newspaper reports of the tragedy, published January 27, 1982.

See:

http://www.backstreets.com/btx...p;p=6407251#p6407251

I am aware of that, though there are conflicting reports that part of the CD comes from another tape late 1981. In my timeline spreadsheet I have most of it in March 1982, before the rehearsals around April 10 1982.

I personally suspect "Bells" was composed March 1982 but I cannot write that without good source,  or enough elements pointing to the date. Send me whatever you have on this.

The date of the event is very good, and we know he was busy with Gary US and then went to LA early March re Donna Summer and Quincey Jones

the second half of March seems to be open

I did research that CD too, and I remember thinking most of it was source from a tape from March 1982

but that some tracks might be from 1981

I guess we need to go over this I will email you

sorry I have been very busy lately

 

people would jump onstage and grab me by the head and scream, ‘tilly! bootlegs!'"

Last edited by tillywilly
tillywilly posted:

jsavage posted:

 

Also, I do not feel it is fair to say "The creators of Lost Masters clearly did not do their homework" in discussing this home demo.

 

 

I couldn't find this quote sorry

 

That's because it was edited on 2-29-2020 by the main founder of the current site.

If you had the courtesy to read the previous comments on this topic, you would have seen him mention this change, and my reply to him. 

His user name is Ponyboy.

Johnny

tillywilly posted:
 

Brucebase has always been flavored by personal commentary of the writer and editors. Before I joined the team, I was a reader and contributor for many years.

I have been visiting the site since it first appeared on the internet almost 20 years ago, and my correspondence and contributions predate yours by years.

The personal commentary on the site was minimal at best until your wholesale revisions of site pages.  To put it mildly, the changes do a disservice to the purpose of the site, and I suspect will ultimately drive away viewership.

 

BACK ON TOPIC:

If anyone has access to the person who currently holds a copy of the full band rehearsal of "The Bells of San Salvador," please direct them here. 

The point of my topic was to learn more about what Bruce did with this stunning work.

Johnny

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