Magic = Mediocre (official version only, please)

I?ve been listening to the vinyl version since last week. I think Magic is a masterpiece. The sound/production is excellent, individual instruments distinct. The wall of sound comments are critics and listeners trying to come up with something to hang onto and are not accurate, but simply lazy writing to describe a dense sound and mix. The ?pop? designation is bit more accurate if you think in terms of 1965-66 rock and soul. That is the music that Bruce first started trying to play on guitar and is still the music that touches him to the core. Think Rubber Soul/Revolver, Aftermath/Between the Buttons, A Quick One, Motown, Beach Boys, and all those one-hit or two-hit wonders now populating PBS pledge drives. I can why DT, as a progressive rock fan, doesn?t like the album.

On my first listen, I turned up the volume three times on ?Radio Nowhere? and kept it up that loud or louder for the rest of the album, and I listen to music I like REALLY loud. Many, many listens later, I still listen loud and the album only gets better. I agree to some extent with the negative comments on ?Your Own Worst Enemy.? It?s the one track I don?t really like due to the schlocky arrangement (Bruce?s fault I expect), but it?s saved by the lyrics and Bruce?s vocal.

Pete Townshend once said something to the effect that rock doesn?t solve your problems, it just helps you dance all over them. That?s what Magic does on one level. Except it also confronts those problems with chilling, blunt honesty, and thus works on a myriad of musical and thematic levels.. Instead of offering simplistic, bombastic criticism or solutions, it gives us complexity and ambiguity. That?s why it goes beyond mere politics. That?s why a lot of people just don?t understand it or even want to understand it. But that willingness to delve the depths in all their conflicting and contradictory truths is what has kept me a Bruce fanatic for over thirty years.

Yes, the songs and themes on this album have been dealt with on other albums. On Magic, his vocals, melodies, and lyrics seem more comfortable together than any band album since The River. I think that?s a reflection of Bruce?s own commitment and assurance about these songs. Artistically at least, the searching that began with Tunnel and led him to explore working with other musicians, solo performing, and the stylistic inconsistencies that marred The Rising has come full circle and for this one album at least, Bruce has found his home.

What he (or she for that matter) said

I love it when King tries to be funny or witty. What you get is either mean spirited - like the post he deleted, kooky, or a head scratcher.

I love the friendly feuds here.

OK, thanks folks for making this thread mostly what I?d hoped to encourage.

Now, about that production (CarolJude, this is what anoraky means??)

When you get the official version, play the start of track 4 and track 7. They both start with piano, right? Well??kind of. Now skip straight to the start of track 12 ? THAT?S a piano.

Now fast forward to the middle of track 12 where it?s got the acoustic guitar and harmonica. OK? Now go to the start of track 5. I think it?s acoustic guitar and harmonica, but for some reason he?s made it sound like it?s coming from 50 yards down the road.

In more general terms, pick anything from this imitation Spector Wall Of Noise mush, then play Darlington County or I?m Goin? Down for a reminder of what the E Street Band could actually sound like if he let them.

This production sucks.

I'm really starting to think that King is Smokey's Tyler Durden.

And if you wish to discuss this further with dt face to face, you'll find him in the O2 bar 40 minutes after the show starts

Isn't that the point? It's a song about a biker.

Maybe my ears are totally fucked, but the production sounds ok to me. Ok, it's dense & wall-of-soundish, but I hear individual instruments and the "mush" actually suits most of the songs.

For me, the songs range from Smokey's A+ (Gypsy Biker, Devils Arcade, Long Walk Home) to solid C+ (You'll be Coming Down, Livin' in the Future). I'm not sold on Radio Nowhere - sounds like a formula song designed to be a single, but the thing that just stops me in my tracks every time so far, is midway through Girls in their Summer Clothes, (which I love totally & unreservedly) - as he hits the "She went away...She cut me like a knife.." line, the production jumps up a notch and just blows me away - fantastic - just about as good as anything he has ever done.

I think that there are some really interesting themes throughout, but would echo CarolJudes's comment that there is a lack of clarity - mainly due to the fact that he seems to have lost the ability to write short, descriptive lyrics - some songs just feel like there are too many words being shoehorned in.
I said on another post, that I didn't think he had this album left in him and I stand by that - I had low expectations and he has over-delivered, however looking at the footage from the Today show, this may well be the "Last Dance" - the band look and sound old in a live setting - it will be interesting to see how the tour progresses - I'm just pleased that I will be in London for the last show of this leg, rather than in Hartford for the first.

On the dt scale, I give it 8.5/10, on the Smokey scale, A-.

The mix sounds fine to me, too - it's a little murky in places, but I like weird sounding records - Exile, There's A Riot Goin On, Wrecking Ball, Time Out of Mind. First four songs are the weakest, but I like the propulsion and crunch and humor in them. This record doesn't need me to make myself enjoy it or respect it the way Joad or The Rising do.

I almost feel like I have to force myself to not enjoy it as much as I do. I hear what sound like flaws to myself and I just simply don't care really.

I think that this is absolutely the key - maybe the naysayers should listen to it more like a fan and less like a critic.

Honestly, I wanted to like it when I first heard it. I went "Eh." Then the fawning reviews came out, and I started becoming more against it. For me, it's really a drop off after "Radio Nowhere" kick starts it and it doesn't recover till "Long Walk Home." It's one thing on The River where the songs are mixed up, but to start off with a hard rocker and then just sort of drift in these 60s-inspired songs for the rest of the album is a letdown.

Don't get me wrong: I love the Beach Boys and can even tolerate the Beatles. But it just doesn't work for me on this album. Like I said, it's not awful, it's not even really bad. But it's not great--which is fine. It's not 1978. Or 1987.

I love it when King tries to be funny or witty. What you get is either mean spirited - like the post he deleted, kooky, or a head scratcher. [/quote]

Funny how you mention my posts but never mention BHL's, to who I was respondimg too. And of couse he was riding on your coattails, but God forbid you would ever edit yourself. That is called "calling the kettle black." Or a hypocrite. Take your pick. The fact is smokey that you simply try to make some lame comment about every post I make here and it became a tired act long ago. This place stopped becomming a fun place to be around long before it crashed and you are one of the prime reasons why. I had really hoped that having a kid would mellow you out some but it appears to have made you even more jaded, which is a real shame. You egg people on and then wonder why they get pissy, while you are often the instigator of the whole thing. At least I have enough restraint to pull some of my comments, which I never would have 2 years ago and which you would never do at all. You really do think that your shit doesn't stink, don't you?. Your posts use to be an amusing read but now it is frustrating and head shaking. I really do feel bad for you and what you may be passing on to others, but I simply have too many good things going on in my life to waste time dealing with you. I hope for your sake that you learn to stop being so mean spirited, but I am not here to reform you.

And don't think for a moment that you are simply being what you were 5 years ago and that suddenly I can' take it. SPL is no longer a place where one can tease someone with a wink in your eye. Despite all the shit this place doled out, people felt welcome, although leery. You and bhl and a couple others now are so brutal, that in some ways this place now stands against everything Bruce actually stood for at is peak. No kidding, DT is a true moderate by comparison! Why would anyone want to deal with this, or watch it done to others? Newbies, with their newbie questions are treated horribly here, and it gets worse every tour. That is one reason why when I look at the top 40 posters here, I only see three or four names that were not on this list 5 years ago. That is a very bad sign for the future of SPL, as any place that gets this precious and closed in is weaker than it seems. The very fact that we have an OAN section should have rang warning bells to the leaders here, for if serious discussions of Bruce's music need to be "protected", then what does it say about the majority of the threads and posts here? But when the threads in this section have now become just another place to let you act like Nurse Ratchett, then it is a sign the board is really dying, and that is a sorry sight indeed.

I hope you see a show and like it (I am sure I will, as I have never disliked a single Bruce show I've attended (except one) despite what one of your many incorrect remarks stated. I know he doesn't make it up your way as much, but I think you could use the lift. Sarcasm and negatvity will eventually make you an unhappy person, if it has not already. Even worse it may rub off on those you DO care about someday, which would be a tragedy.

I have a feeling this thread may go into a direction different from the one intented, but it?s just a feeling, really

It already did.

See? Mean spirited, kooky, and a head scratcher! All three in one long winded post! And he even tries to use those phrases against me after I've used them to describe him.

I'd say take a bow but I know what that phrase does to you.

Dude, in all seriousness, use the "ignore this user" function.

And that's really incorrect - ask tattoodad.

That is a very good idea, I had forgotten all about that.

Not well played by King. And the hotel doorman crack sucked too.

Smokey will revel in this the rest of day, as he cleans the dried semen out of the hotel bedspreads with his teeth, listening to Golden Palamino and The Wish on his Ipod.

I am sorry you find the truth mean spirited. I am simply trying to describe how you are acting. And I do not recall any of the phrases I used that you had previously used on me. If so, sorry for the copyright infringement. But to say that I am being mean spirited is like saying that someone who has been physically assaulted is being mean spirited for pressing charges against the perpetrator.

Actually, you are right! He will. And that is really sad isn't it? That si why he comes here, in order to revel in his own wit and to make other people seem like less in his own mind. I am sure he thinks he has "won," and maybe he has, but I was not here to compete with him.

For starters, I have the day off. And I don't have an Ipod. And the foreign ladies clean the sheets.

I've said it a bunch of times - King is the best thing that ever happened to this place. His semi-retirement was a terrible blow to the daily humor ratio around here. Sometimes he gets it, and sometimes he views everything directed at him as intending harm and returns volley with those goofy psych evaluations. (See post directly above.)

All that and more from a BMW driving war loving "Buddhist" who calls me jaded and wishes that I find something - anything - to like, while he's the one who posts those "it sucks and will be forgotten in one week" reviews about every record since 1988.

Smokey misses you King. It's been rough on him, ever since Joey Ramone died and Cherry Top left SPL from getting too fat to punch the right keys. Smokey's been reduced to being the board's biggest Brucefag, going around calling Magic an A++++ album, to keep graces with the Magpies and the returning young johnny's of the board. And now Wooly has turned all of his old manlove for chance on to smokey. Sure, Joad's return to bore us all toward suicide with is helpful, but you're who he needs, who, well, he craves. It's all he has left.

And hence, marriage.

He's right, King.

He forgot Gerk, sort of like we've all forgotten Gerk, but we . . . I mean me . . really need you.

Me really need you King.

If you bring the wine, I'll introduce you to a licensed massage therepist who has a hidden pricelist.

(I posted that before reading your last one so technically it's your turn. If you're pulling in less cash these days, that massage thing runs about $300 or so.)

Christ, he deleted the post I was referring to.

I have to go pick up MAGIC! at the store and bring my daughter to the park. Hopefully I will find some joy in that, however temporary. I'll stop by later if you want to play catch.

And King, when I was a newbie here with barely 10 posts on the board, compared to your gargantuan 5000 at the time, you insulted me, wantonly, ruthlessly, and viciously.

I still hold the graphic reply in my small link folder of thousands of naughty nuggets.

This is for you King, so either shake off the rust, or, become the Lord Pederast of the newbie class here.

I just deleted my last rant because I didn't want it to follow this post by sj above, which was much more...err...nice.

It is very hard to know when you are kidding and when you are not SJ. It use to be obvious years ago, but now I wonder if there is any humor behind what you post, or is it relecting the fact you would rather not see my posts at all. Do I really have to get this bent out of shape in order for you to reign in the talons every now and then? I don't want to come to a place when I am not working 90 hour weeks in order to have to question as I type every statement "I wonder if I just left myself open for some comment from smokeyjoe." Life is just tooooo short, you know? I don't mind being teased over "The List," which thank God is lost to history, but I don't want to have to defend myself all the time against you. Especially since you installed that text message alert software that lets you know every time I post.

I don't know - do you?

This is how I see our relationship, King. I wink at you, you wink at me, and then you punch me in the face. It doesn't hurt, but I feel like I have to re-explain the whole thing to you.

Get a room, I believe is the phrase.

Can we get back to loving or hating the album, with no allowance for any grey areas in between, please?

Sure.

I love it.

Really? I am sorry for that. There is no doubt I could be a real twat back then, maybe much more than I care to remember. I am sorry I said whatever I said to you el jefe. The worst thing I ever said was actually about BHL, and I still cringe at that thought. Maybe BHL still holds that against me (if he was even here when I said it, I can't remember,) but I am real sorry for that as well. I will accept all the shit he has said about me as payback for that doozy, after all, I am Buddhist and we believe in karma, kinda.

Anyway, now that I have vented, I will think about how many of my 12,000 posts may have brought this on myself to many a degree and try to move on. I am not the same person as I was 2 years ago in many ways, but how are any of you ging to know that in cyberspace. First and long impressions are hard to change. But if you look carefully, I don't post quite the same as I use to. My political posts are down 95%, the are a bit more moderate and overall I am a much more mellow guy than I use to be, at least according to al those who know me. I have thought about talking about how going after your dream can change your life, regardless of the societal pressures and money situaton, as I think it could honestly help others, but I have never considered such a discussion because it would make me such an obvious target in a place like SPL.

So...(and I am nervous to see what has been posted since I started typing this...) I want to publically apologize to SJ for some of my expolsive comments to him over time, to el jefe and schmat and the other libs who I have insulted over time as well. Especially for that "You hope that the troops die" comment, which was really over the line. Also, and especially to BHL for the comment I made 5 years ago, you did not deserve that at all. And generally for being such a jerk to anyone I offended. I will try to be better about it from now on. I wont be perfect, but I am not asking for perfection from anyone here, just moderation. I'll try my best. Thanks.

PS- dt will probably shut down this thread after that post. Sorry bout that dt, the thread drift is almost over, I promise.

Have you even told us whether you like the fucking thing or not, cos after all this bullshit I can't remember.

Okay.

The problem is that for me Darkness, BTR and BUSA are three of my favorite albums of all time. BUSA may not be as good as the other two, but because it is what got me into Bruce, it holds a special place in my heart. I hold all of Bruce's work up against thaose three and I find his stuff the last 2 decades falling wayyyy short. Magic is just the latest.

I find no songs on his recent albums that speak to me and that is the worst sin for me. In 1984 I was half his age, now in 2007 I am much closer, yet what he talks about now does not connect nearly as well. The best of Bruce's music and lyrics connect at a deep level for me, and he does not seem to have this ability for me and the longer this goes on, the more upset I get about it. Radio Nowhere is a good song, but there is nothing about it that "matters." His songs on this album do not transport me to someone else's world experience, they do not open my eyes to other points of view, which BUSA did. So did TOL. In TOL he was talking about relationship issues, that at age 21, were way beyond my experience, but I could FEEL it anyway. I have not heard anything on Magic that does this. At his best, Bruce made you feel like you were not alone, especially up to 1984. From 1984-87 he was able to take me to other people experiences, and since TOL he has accomplished less and less of either, except in concert. And over time this is becomming more and more upsetting.

As others have posted, every song on Magic seems to have been pulled from another song from years ago. For me the difference is that in Magic, the songs do not emotionally connect, and the gulf between what was, and what is, seems much larger because of it.

King has obviously become an alcoholic.

bump

Haha! Actually, I rarely drink now at all, I can't afford it! I have to taste wine all day because I make it, so the last thing you wanna do is drink after work. Unless it is a really nice bottle.