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I'm putting this in here as, although I'm obviously not breaking any new ground, I am deadly serious and I'm interested to hear from people whose views I actually respect (newbies and Euros don't come in here, right?).

I bought the album today and I've just played it. I hate it.

I hadn't listened to the mp3's for a few weeks and was hoping that absence makes yada yada yada and the "perfect" sound quality (yeah right, more on that in a minute) would let me appreciate things more, but actually it's got worse.

The production - awful. I know Bruce likes the 60's but that doesn't mean we have to go back to medium wave through a transistor radio, does it? So many instruments, and yet it's just a mush. Or maybe that's why it's just a mush, although The Rising didn't sound anywhere near this bad. I'm sure there's some nice guitar or sax parts in here somewhere, but Brendan doesn't want us to hear them.

Never is it more obvious than when Terry's Song starts. Oh fuck, is that a piano? Wow, I can actually hear it. And listen, there's an acoustic guitar in the other speaker. So this is what music's supposed to sound like....

And the songs. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Well, OK, apart from Livin' In The Future and Girls In Their Summer Clothes which are actually memorable for their teeth-grating cheesiness.

But the rest of 'em? They just wash over me. The epitome of bland. You'll Be Coming Down, or even worse, Your Own Worst Enemy - what the fuck is that? It's just nothing! Four tracks in, and now I'm starting to get annoyed and it's a challenge not to hit the fast forward button. I think the next one started with a harmonica and acoustic guitar, but as it sounded like it was coming from my neighbour's garage, I couldn't really tell.

Lyrics? Schmyrics. If he doesn't want me to hear what he's singing, why should I make the effort to go and read it?

I think this one's gonna go down as the very definition of average, folks. The only ones I'm tempted to try again are the JJ Cale homage and the Nothing Man / LOHAD remake.

I'm revising my initial 6/10 down to 4/10.
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I was hoping the production would be clearer on the official one, but no.

Don't forget, according to the Sunday Times, this is his best album since Nebraska. Well, they also said HT/LT was critically panned (not in Rolling Stone, or Q Magazine) well possibly they were.

But I still can't get into it, tho starting to understand the lyrics a bit more, despite JL's press release.....

But, d-t, you got to admit, Bruce has always been based in the 60's and old people like to stick to familiar ground - but every band in the last 20 years has its base in the 60s!

But look on the bright side, you can hardly hear the sax either!
I don't think there would have been any way for Bruce to win with the most critical of his fans with this album.

While the masses and the print critics will give it an 'A' or Five stars or whatever because it's a ritual with them and it's a rock album by Bruce Springsteen, his most critical fans will find something lacking and they're right.

But yet, at the same token, they're wrong too.

If Bruce would have forsaken melody, as he has too often over the past twenty years, there would have been the heat he would get for being impossible to listen to.
Going melodic...'pop' if you will, which he has, he takes the hit for being generic.

With that in mind, I've come back from my initial position on this album to an extent.
I originally likened it to being the 'Rolling Stones' album...a CD of generic and expendable 'Bruce Springsteen Songs' designed with a tour in mind and to be shelved immediately thereafter.

While I still think it has a generic sound, the songs have grown on me...including what you've named as the cheesiest of the bunch.
There is a theme here if not a solid 'concept', and it's accessible.

For too long, I think we've been expecting or hoping for the next 'Born To Run' or the next 'Darkness' and we've forgotten that not only were they written and played by a different Bruce, but that we also heard them with different ears....at the very least, ears that were 30 years younger and less cynical.

For what it sets out to accomplish, keeping Springsteen on the map and pleasantly productive, "Magic" achieves it's purpose.

Nothing more...but nothing less either.
Just when they think they have all the answers, I come and change all the questions.
I'm right where JB is. Familiarity helps these songs, and only in the context of learning them for the tour.

I consider this album to be The Rising Part II and having no connection whatsoever to anything in the Sacred Era.

Not bad music, but nothing special from the studio.

As for the lyrics, apply the Hazy method to it, and add in your own 2.7 alcohol level expletive inside the lines.

"It's gonna be a long walk home (you motherfucking right-wing war-whores) gonna be a long walk home."
I haven't made my mind up yet. The fawning praise for the album is pushing me to the dt side, though.

Yes, the production is dense. And though people are talking about the "wall of sound" production, I don't think the comparison is appropriate. The Wall of Sound was achieved by having all the musicians--twice the number of the full and bloated E Street band--playing in one room together, recording down to mono. It wasn't muddy, because instead of recording the instruments separately and smashing them to two tracks, it was recorded all at once and so, ideally at least, wasn't the sound of a piano and a guitar at the same time but rather a third, different sound. You can't get the sound by adding instruments in layers, which is apparently what they did.

It's ironic: They developed multi-tracking to keep up with what Brian Wilson and Phil "Gunman" Spector were doing with mono in the studio, and now people (ab)use that technology and claim it's the same thing.

I do like some of the songs. I think Radio Nowhere actually rocks--at least on the album; it hasn't live, so far anyway. Magic is sufficiently creepy that it's new and different, and I like it for that reason alone. And I'm always a sucker for anytime Bruce delves into the Catechism for his rhyming dictionary, so I like "I'll Work for Your Love." I can live with "Long Walk Home." "Terry's Song" is like "Pony Boy" to me: Sort of out of place on the album, but a nice coda nonetheless. It's fine, good even, for what it is. I hadn't deconstructed the sound, but it is a much simpler arrangement, which is a nice change of pace.

I think "Livin' in the Future" and "Your Own Worst Enemy" are really bad, two of the worst he's had in a while. "Girls in Their Summer Clothes" is just alright, which was really disappointing to me. Don't care for "Devil's Arcade" or "Last to Die" (cheesy Roulette ripoff), and it has nothing to do with the politics. I think Bruce actually does a decent job lyrically of making the songs relevant to the personal or the political on this album, which is to his credit, (or it's because the songs are about Patti kicking him out to the barn, monkey on a leash indeed).

I'd give it higher than a four, no less than a 6 for sure. I wouldn't even call it mediocre. But to compare it to The River or Nebraska is absurd. People making those claims make me want to hate it more than I actually do, which says more about me than the album. I'd probably give it a B.
Of course I know what you're talking about, although I think pretentious and head-up-your-arse are my usual expressions. wink

But what I was trying to get across, in the limited space available, is for people not to comment on the mp3 leak, but only if they've now heard the official version. Because to my ears, the sound still sucks, and I thought that worthy of debate. We're all pleased about a return to the E Street Band kind of sound, and yet it all seems to be deliberately mushed up.
I dont know about respecting views, but Ive been onboard with Bruce since the late 70's and would like to think I could address his work with a deal of fairness, and balance.

Where I think this album wins, is quite simple, there is absolutely nothing riding on it whatsover. It aint gonna sell by the bucketload, and therefore you can sense an artist at complete ease with himself.

The songs are light in feel, but extremely dark on the inside, and he's actually covered both sides of his fan bases quite well, those that want something more melodic, and those that wish for a further extension of the political views he has been extolling.

On Magic you get both, so its unusual that for the first time in a long time, he's likely to please one and all. Listening in the car today, the work sounded effortless, it sounded fresh, and it sounded like a record recorded this century, let alone the last, it sounded like a clasic E Street record, there are some great E Street moments on this record, which could not be said of The Rising, were the E Street Band were to my ears mostly redundant.

Had he gathered the troops around him, we'd probably not get this record this side of next year, so credit I think to the way O'Brien has at least opened up the recording process.

As for the songs, well there are quite clearly 3 standout songs, the title track, Devils Arcade, and the outstanding Long Walk Home, which is trademark imagery that only Springsteen can deliver. On these 3 songs alone, he has this listener captivated, and off searching for that imagery that backs up these 3 songs, ask yourself do you actually picture Springsteen songs or just merely listen, these songs are clear evidence of just how far he stands apart from most modern day songwriters, and yes there are other great ones as well.

Its balance is right, its got the correct number of songs, and its an easy listen, and your not exactly rushing for the forward buttons either. All in all I think its a great record, a really great record
I like the melodies. The production is wonderful. It sounds enough like the production of the Rising and has enough of 1982 in it for me to love it. He's looking forward and back and the same time. I can live with that.

I'm a little confused by his motives. Clouded meanings in the songs? What's the purpose. He said he didn't want to hit anyone over the head with the lyrics. Does he think 19 year olds are going to dig deep into the meaning of Living in the Future? Please. Or Your Own Worst Enemy? Please again. He's a 58 year old guy. 19 year olds are not listening to him...but even if they were, they don't care enough to dig too deep. Doesn't he see our bald spots (like we see his?) Otherwise, he's just singing to his liberal masses. He certainy isn't going to convert any conservative adults with this album. He's singing to overweight middle-aged women (did you see Today?..ugh) who wish to have his children, and to anger liberal men who are afraid of what we might do to Iran. As a political figure, he's completely ineffectual. As a guy who puts on 3 hour shows (ok, used to), sings "gooba-gooba-gooba" to 70,000 fans, and yells, "Steve!" or "Big Man!" a coupla few times a night, he's a great performer. But c'mon. This is all pretentious college freshman shit. You know it too, secretly.

I guess that's why he went with an album of songs that means everything to one bunch of guys, nothing to another, and you can dance to it. You hear what you want to hear and you don't what you don't want to. The band likes playing it, Jessie gets a new pony, and his idol status among previous mentioned demographics stays high. I like the sound of Last To Die. But it's a pretentious song, especially if you know a double amputee (my neighbor) who would gladly roll his wheelchair back to Iraq to fight another day. If you don't know that guy, like I do, the song probably pisses you off, makes you want to donate to moveon.org, and curse Dan Rather for blowing the election for John Kerry, or worse, curse yourself for donating to Hillary's campaign, given her flip-flopping on the war and Saddam Hussein's threat to the US. Or maybe you do know a double amputee who is devastated by his injuries. Or maybe you know the family of someone who died in Iraq, again who is devastated. And for you, Last To Die is going to make you pump your fist at some short-haired, middle-aged guy who rolls his eyes. Me? I'm going to think about my neighbor and I'll probably grab a beer during the song on Saturday night. My neighbor has never thought it was a mistake to go to Iraq. And neither do I.

I love Devil's Arcade. But what Bruce doesn't get is that to an 11B (infantry), that arcade of Iraq is exactly where they want to be. He is so locked into the 60s mindset of his generation getting drafted and going to Vietnam ("...and he didn't even know where it was") that he totally misses that since 9/11 about 400,000 young men and woman have enlisted in the Army, and that since the Iraq War started, about 300,000. And if he's just singing about one guy's experiences? Fine. But he's not. He thinks he's singing about us all. What he doesn't understand is that he doesn't have the secret to the world. And he certainly doesn't understand today's Army. That said, it's a great song. It's a great song about a guy recoverying from war. War is real. War sucks. War is necessary. And for some guys, they love it. And for some others, it's a combination of all of that. And recovery for them sucks too. But until you've met the double amputee who lived two houses down from me until recently, you (and Bruce) have no idea what recovery means. And so while Devil's Arcade is a moving piece, lyrically and musically, it's just a story. It doesn't hold the keys to the universe. It's Devils and Dust on steriods. I just hope they can play it live pretty well. My guess is that it won't sound very good in the cavern of Wachovia.

And I love Girls in their Summer Clothes. I love it so much that I think I'll marry it.

Originally Posted By: Julius
War is necessary.


I don't want to start a political thing over here, so don't reply to this post...but ther has not been one shred of evidence yet that the war in Iraq (or rather, the invasion of Iraq) was "necessary."

If you want to reply with the validations for the war, if you have something new that justifies it, I'll look for it in off-topic.

I honestly don?t really understand why this record is getting so very mixed reviews on this board (I?m not counting the zillions of "just great", "fantastic" one-line comments in the 34-pages thread but based on the reviews from people I?ve come to "know" a bit in the past years judging from their comments on previous albums and shows).

All excitement about the band being together again and going on tour aside, I think it?s just a great (there it goes) album that?s grabbed me from the second or third listen and hasn?t let go, yet, after I?ve been listening to nothing else since last friday (hadn?t heard the mp3s before the official release, just Radio Nowhere).

I agree on Your Own Worst Enemy and You?ll Be Coming Down, but from Gypsy Biker until right to the end, this is a very strong run of songs, containing everything I expect from a Springsteen record and I particularly like the way, once again, the lyrics work perfectly as a counterpart to the music and create their own world to dive into, whether you want to hear them as references to the war in Iraq, to society in general or just as short stories about a certain person, a certain character at a certain point in their lives (like their author), open to your very own interpretation.
Admittedly, I read the lyric sheet while listening, I wouldn?t have been able to make out too many of the words from hearing the songs alone since the vocals are buried in the mix a bit too much for my taste.

I will not try to explain why a certain song like Last To Die makes me feel like it?s one of the best things I?ve heard in a long time from the man or try to convince those who disagree (same with many of the songs on D&D which is not held in too high regards by many of you, either) since I won?t succeed and don?t really want to, anyway.

But in all seriousness:
What should the record have sounded like for you to enjoy it?
I know at least dt is not asking for BTR or Darkness revisited, so what should it have been like?

I remember the debates when the Rising came out between dt and JSBach (where is he, anyway?) in the "it?s so bad/so good I almost wanted to cry" or something like that-threads and I remember how much I wanted to like the record back then although I already knew that I would listen to only a handful of these songs in a few years time and was proven right.

With this one, it doesn?t feel forced or that I want to like it just because it?s a new Springsteen record, honestly I was expecting that I would hate it after reading some of the reviews on this board both good and bad ones.

But it turned out to be just a collection of mostly great songs with some very nice playing and some nice little production tricks here and there that the man recorded in 2007 at this point of his career and I?m perfectly happy with it.

Didn?t expect to be.
I don't think perfect sound would have saved this. Like I said before, combine Lucky Town and Human Touch, take away the 10 best songs, and Magic is what you have left over. This album will be forgotten faster than The Rising was. No new ground is broken at all, all the songs were derived from other songs released previously and the lyrics are muddled in most songs. I've already stopped listening to most of it.
I'll be the first to admit I "love" it in part because I really want to love it, which helps to balance my feeling that he is trying too hard. Some of the songs are way too wordy ('Girls, 'Enemy, I'll Work for Your Love) when they should be simpler. Sometimes it works, sometimes it feels like he's trying to channel his inner Jungleland. Sometimes they just don't feel quite right: does Shaniqua really say 'penny for your thoughts, my boy Bill?' A spinning neon sign over the Lost and Found? A Lost and Found?

I haven't heard the actual album with the actual production yet, but I've been playing the big huge MP3s - I hear the instruments but it IS a mush much of the time. I won't say more as I want to hear the actual album and see if that's different, as some have said, and some have denied.

I'm guessing a lot of the good feeling about Magic will likely be generated at first due to the 'thank God, a ROCK (or POP) album from Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.' Duh. It's possible he felt the same way in creating it, and wanted to put in so much more than he really had to. I think what I'm going to do is enjoy it and view it as a 'shakedown;' preparation for the NEXT album, which will hopefully be another ESB album where the right pieces come together more cohesively in the right places.

I really want to love it, and so I choose to love it. I love my cat even when he pees in inappropriate places, because of the way he purrs when he doesn't. There's a lot on this album that I really like.
Originally Posted By: CarolJude


I really want to love it, and so I choose to love it. I love my cat even when he pees in inappropriate places, because of the way he purrs when he doesn't. There's a lot on this album that I really like.


smile I like this.

Now I'm just wondering on which songs is Bruce peeing? I know, you don't want to say. And that's ok. I think he sprays a little here and there too. But overall, I want to like the album, and I do.
I have not heard the album yet, only the MP3s. As mentioned, they sounded like "mush." And, like others, I assumed the production on the release might be better. However, apparently it isn't. That does not bode well for me. I would prefer a little clarity and, in that regard, I agree with dt's assessment. On the other hand, as CarolJude put so eloquently, I want to enjoy this album. So I am going to give it some time. My first reaction to The Rising was similar and, in the end, it grew on me. I suspect Magic will do the same.
Pro-Life or Pro-War? Make up your mind.
Originally Posted By: Buddhabone
I think it'll hold up pretty well. Maybe I'm being way too optimistic here, but that's my thought.

I did play The rising the other day, and it holds up well too.


Someones on the little blue pills

→→→→→→→→→→→→→→←←←←←←←←←←←←←←

In the basement at St. Johns well I found her where she fell

Just another busted sister of Heartbreak Hotel

Originally Posted By: Pete
no issues with the sound here. Probably the opposite. No it's not pristine, but Bruce has never done pristine.


Yeah he did, it's called "Tunnel of Love". But you have to pick up the studio album to know it. I don't care about all the talk of Digital vs. Analog, that album is the best sounding CD I own.

I wouldn't give the new album an A or anything, but it's enjoyable enough not to hate on.
Originally Posted By: BillHortonLives
Originally Posted By: smokeyjoe
Sounds like an A+ Springsteen album to me.

The only question now is whether the amount of times King posts "nothing could've saved these songs and they'll be forgotten faster than blah blah blah" surpasses the amount of times he's posted that he would like to see David Sancious return.



King puts the twat in twat.


bye.
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